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When will Theme Park Studio be released? ;-(

#31
(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: First off, I must make mention, I don't actually work for Pantera - I'm doing this as an enthusiast for the product. .....

I wondered about that and appreciate your making specific mention of it.

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: .....
Secondly, I was here when RCT3 debuted to the world. And it was no bed of roses. It was a 3d interpretation of RCT2 with a number of user interface bugs, missing graphic options, and a serious memory leak that made using the brand new 'night' feature hopeless. You also lacked common sense hotkeys like ctrl-click that positions scenery at a predetermined height (something we use instinctively without ever questioning) and 'z' to rotate scenery. There were also mixmaster features missing, like a scrub bar that allows you to poke through the show you've made - instead of having to go from the beginning every time.
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My point is, even the standard you hold to didn't start smooth and that game 9 years ago had to have 3 major structural patches applied to it AFTER it released. These changes were proof that this game wasn't ready - but it adhered to its arbitrary release date, instead of getting things right before the game went public.

And in spite of that, 9 years after release RCT3 still has a huge following.

We all know RCT3 wasn’t ready when it was released. Many of us at the time we saw RCT3 on shop shelves believed just a little that it might be too good to be true. However, there we were, standing in the shop with the product in our hands. We thought it probably wouldn’t run on our current PC but it didn’t cost the moon so we bought it.

Atari’s ethos in releasing a product before it was entirely ready for the market was probably along the lines of getting people to believe there was actually a working product that we could see, feel and use. The point I made is that Atari gave us a date and stuck to it by putting an actual product on the shelves. If nothing else this made the company look credible, reliable and professional.

On another website member SilverSwordsman compared RCT3 to a harsh mistress so I’ll continue his thought in this way:

Imagine it’s Monday and you ask your girlfriend for some quality time just the two of you (we’re adults so I don’t have to explain any further what that means) and she told you wait for a week after which time she’ll probably come up with something better then than what it is she could give you right now. The week goes by during which you’re hotly anticipating getting together with her. On the Sunday a week later she says she still doesn’t have it together yet and will be ready for you in a month as she still has some bugs to iron out of her package but after that month she’ll blow your mind. The month passes and you approach her. She gives you another time, another excuse and another promise, reminding you that her best friend gave it to her boyfriend too soon after which your girlfriend runs down a list of the problems her best friend’s boyfriend experienced from getting it too soon from her best friend so she’s not going to do it that way, she’s going to wait until she’s decided she’s ready just right for you. I’m not going to ask you to tell us how you feel because the men on this site already know how we’d feel is this happened to us.

And nothing is perfect from the start. Imagine the first time you met your girlfriend over drinks or whatever and she declined a second meeting because she believed she needed to get it together before she was ready. I have been in clubs, bars & lounges and have actually overheard one person using this excuse as a reason for not seeing another person a further time. I’ll tell you, when I hear someone say that they sound pathetic. The person this has been said to appears dejected or disappointed but I think the idiot done them a favour.

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: .....
Before you had forums, you had Atari support - and let me tell you, it was hopeless as well. There were countless issues with directX when RCT3 first came out and PCs were working up towards the system specs - but seeing how Atari was only the publisher, they'd run down a laundry list of general solutions without actually thinking about your specific issue. If it couldn't be fixed, then they'd send you to Frontier's tech department.
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This is water under the bridge and is neither here nor there. Atari’s initial support wasn’t perfect? Most major organizations have dreadful support departments/services. Are you suggesting that TPS will have excellent support? Is that support already in place ready for release of the product or will Pantera end up promising us the support too?

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: .....
I don't want to start a war here - and if you really know me, you'd know that I've spent a great deal of time and effort learning every nook and cranny of RCT3. I've made dark rides, coaster films, fully themed parks, fireworks shows, custom vegetation, particle effects. But why I have hope in TPS is because I feel it will take the RCT3 baton and continue the Theme Park genre marathon - but only if people give it a fighting chance.
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I thought I recognized your user name but didn’t want to make an issue of asking specifically if that was you. I’m aware of your stunning contributions to RCT3. Your vegetation is enchanting and breathtaking and I make sure it’s in all my parks. I’m sure I speak for most people on our site when I thank you for the remarkable contribution you’ve made towards enriching the RCT3 experience for all of us.

Notwithstanding that I’m not interested in any game I have to pay for before I can hold it in my hand and then I myself have to give that game a fighting chance. The developers themselves need to give the game the fighting chance it needs to succeed RCT3. Pantera took on the challenge and began developing this idea and they need to handle it. Promises are not handling it. Promises are only procrastination at its most slicked down and dressed up. Extracting money from the public for an incomplete product has not improved things.

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: .....
You said this yourself - RCT3 can't do this and to expect that TPS will be able to with no consequences to your actions is absurd. You will be able plop down whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you can do it to infinity. It doesn't mean you can arbitrarily have 50K guests because you want it. Everything in gaming has a cost - and the more geometry and textures you put into a gaming engine, the more power you're going to need to support that. TPS mantra is about total sandbox play, but that doesn't mean you get to have everything you want simultaneously.
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I’m always suspicious of people who feel the need to tell me what I said, as if I don’t remember. If I can’t remember what I said how could I possibly remember anything they’re telling me? And if they believe my memory is that bad why would people like that communicate with me at all?

Furthermore you don’t have it right what it is I said. Yes I said RCT3 can’t do this now but I also said I’ll only move on from RCT3 if its successor can take me closer to what it is I want.

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: ..... with no consequences to your actions.....

I didn’t say that either – you said that.

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: ..... to infinity. .....

I didn’t say that either – you said that. I was quite specific what I wanted and never once mentioned the word “infinity.” 1,000,000 servers and graphics cards each with 1,000,000TB of capacity along with billions in RAM and thousands of the most powerful CPU’s couldn’t handle any game played to infinity so why would I believe I could have that on my humble PC?

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: ..... you get to have everything you want simultaneously......

You’re only taking a portion of what I said to suit your point. I also said this:

(Oct 3, 2013, 04:55 AM)FlightToAtlantis Wrote: .....
I will admit though that for the next ten years that might be a bit much to expect from a PC game. I can’t do that now with RCT3 but in order for me to switch TPS needs to take me closer to that than RCT3.....

You’ve written that TPS will take us farther from this than RCT3 and that it’s not fair to compare the two. After hearing that why on earth would I switch from RCT3 to TPS?

Arbitrariness never entered the picture. I’ve played RCT3 since it’s been around and have given my requirements careful consideration. I believe that in about 10 years time that if it is possible to play RCT3 on PC’s manufactured after the year 2020 we could get all this out of our game and that there will still be a following for RCT3 at that time. I believe if it is ever released Theme Park Studio will be a flash in the pan that will be all but completely forgotten six months after release. RCT3 is and will always be the Microsoft Windows of the gaming industry. TPS will never graduate higher than the MAC.

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: .....
Surely you can see that your expectations are way out of line? I hate to always bring up this comparison, but SimCity can't even keep track of 12,000 agents. How do you figure TPS will be able to manage 5 times that?

I will wish for what I want regardless of the next person’s approval, permission or input. In view of the previous paragraph I’ve written my response is no, my expectations are not out of line. I don’t see any such thing.

You’re asking the wrong person how TPS will be able to manage X number of guests – you need to be asking Theme Park Studio’s developers this. I’m not interested in how they do it until after they’ve done it. How they do it or if they can do it is their problem.

Pantera portrays itself as a company that’s interested in what the customer wants and this is what I want. The bottom line is that while I’m slightly dissatisfied with RCT3’s limitations I’m with it for the long haul or until something extremely better comes along. I have no intention of lowering my expectations and abandoning a game I’m almost completely satisfied with to indulge the inadequate standards and expectations of a company struggling to produce an inferior game who at the same time are expecting the public to buy it before it’s ready for release while not knowing what sort of system it will need simply because the game they are promising, if released, will be new.
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#32
Well I don't think anyone is asking you to abandon RCT3 - I think it's pretty fair to say that if TPS doesn't create the same emotional bond that RCT3 has, it won't get very far. However what I'm personally asking is that the community at large gives this program a chance before scoffing at the WIP imagery and drawing conclusions without knowing - or making wild assumptions and expecting things that were never promised. And this isn't directed at you, this is directed at every community that has a TPS section. The promotional material has been VERY feature based and I understand that - people need to see potential more than just features. It is one of my current complaints with how the game has been handled.

However, why I put my trust in a small developer like this is all the reasons you stated to make your own point. I like the fact that they're being outright and honest with exactly where they are with the game - even if that means the game's date gets pushed back, I don't feel like I'm being taken like I have felt recently with bigger developers. But that is my own opinion and it isn't meant to change anyone's minds.

You can still be dissatisfied with where TPS is currently, but what I ask is that you don't completely shut it out from now until 2014 - because wheels are in motion and I think you're going to finally see what I see in this game.

Quote:"Hello Everyone,

Just a quick update. We have finished our new custom train module. This was an unplanned feature that we recently added to our ever growing feature list. In a few days, we will be demonstrating the product to our top tier backers, discussing with them its current state, and focus group testing our current features. We are working every day to polish and prepare for this meeting. By mid next week we will be able to create some new video sequences showcasing how you can build custom trains from build sets. Stay tuned!"
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#33
when do you think the mac version will be out?
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#34
(Oct 2, 2013, 05:07 PM)n747 Wrote: ….. The Frontier proprietary file extensions like .ovl (overlays) will not auto-import into TPS. ….. However by converting existing scenery in sketchup to COLLADA (or .dae extensions), you certainly can have a piece of RCT3 in TPS. …..

Just to see how convenient it could be to open or import an RCT3 file in SketchUp and convert it into .dae format I tried it. SketchUp didn’t recognize any of the files I attempted to do this with and I was therefore unable to open any RCT3 file with SketchUp.

It doesn't appear that this conversion you mentioned is possible. How exactly is it that this is supposed to work?
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#35
(Oct 5, 2013, 10:45 AM)FlightToAtlantis Wrote:
(Oct 2, 2013, 05:07 PM)n747 Wrote: ….. The Frontier proprietary file extensions like .ovl (overlays) will not auto-import into TPS. ….. However by converting existing scenery in sketchup to COLLADA (or .dae extensions), you certainly can have a piece of RCT3 in TPS. …..

Just to see how convenient it could be to open or import an RCT3 file in SketchUp and convert it into .dae format I tried it. SketchUp didn’t recognize any of the files I attempted to do this with and I was therefore unable to open any RCT3 file with SketchUp.

It doesn't appear that this conversion you mentioned is possible. How exactly is it that this is supposed to work?

Unfortunately, that power would have to come from the existing scenery creators themselves - sketchup doesn't understand what an overlay file is. You can export sketchup files to .dae and that will also save the textures for import into TPS.

Any RCT3-specific extensions will not work in any other program other than RCT3.
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#36
Based on information I had already read about TPS and already knowing TPS wouldn’t come with any auto-import function I asked you if it was convenient to convert RCT3 files for use in TPS. Basically what I wanted to know if it was possible to open an RCT3 file in a third-party application and simply save it into a format that would enable its use in TPS. A simple import/export - this is all that I, the casual customer of Pantera’s new product, who if he bought this game would be playing it occasionally and secondary to RCT3, should be expected to do.

(Oct 2, 2013, 02:45 PM)FlightToAtlantis Wrote: ….. will we be able to use RCT3 structures, CSO's, CTR's and CFR's in Theme Park Studio? …..

Without my making any mention of the word “auto” you responded that it wasn’t possible to auto-import such files but mentioned it was possible through SketchUp. I tried that, it didn’t work and I posted accordingly.

(Oct 5, 2013, 09:59 PM)n747 Wrote: …..
Unfortunately, that power would have to come from the existing scenery creators themselves - sketchup doesn't understand what an overlay file is. You can export sketchup files to .dae and that will also save the textures for import into TPS.

Now you’re advising only the custom artists can convert their own original files so I guess that’s yet another feature your customers who are not CS artists will have to wait for after they’ve got a copy of Theme Park Studio. While I understand that part of your response may have been directed to any custom artists reading your thread, for those of us who have yet to make our first custom items, while you may not have meant it to be your response was misleading. If I hadn’t made my post when might you have advised the non CS artists on this site that this response was not a general suggestion but was in fact directed to CS artists and their own files?

Most of the reasoning I see that someone is supposed to bother with TPS seem to revolve around the fighting chance this game needs being dependent on customers adjusting their attitudes favourably towards your product and other factors taking place from outside TPS and from outside Pantera.

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: ….. hate to always bring up this comparison, but SimCity can't even keep track of 12,000 agents. How do you figure TPS will be able to manage 5 times that?

All this blow about a game that won’t even be able to get us 12,000 guests in one park – a comment that by the way was written by someone who believes that because SimCity can’t do it then Theme Park Studio shouldn’t have to either. Why is it when people want to know if TPS can do something above and beyond RCT3 we’re reminded what other games on the market can’t do? And when we mention these facts we’re asked to tell how we think it should be done? Is this how Pantera’s support is going to work? Quite frankly I don’t know why the folks at Pantera are bothering.

Most times you enter a response in this thread you put another nail in the coffin lid on my decision to not bother with Theme Park Studio so this just about does it then. I’m afraid I will not only be forgetting about Theme Park Studio until 2014 but I will be forgetting about it for several years until all these expectations outside TPS and Pantera have become reality, until all the outside influences that this game needs in order to consider itself a success transpire, until the fighting chance this game needs has been won and until the game actually becomes a popular success. Even then I won’t be dropping any money on TPS until I’m sure it can take me above and beyond what RCT3 can do now.

(Oct 3, 2013, 02:29 PM)n747 Wrote: ….. Surely you can see that your expectations are way out of line?.....

It needs to be above and beyond RCT3.
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#37
I don't know. I want to upload that stuff to.
I need a new signature.
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#38
There is one problem: I don't have a Mac. Frown Eek Angry Confused
                                                           Total coasters ridden: 66
Soon to be more. Cedar Point, Silver Dollar City, and Six flags St. Louis are all upcoming for me. Also possibly Kings Island!



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#39
Well Actually On The Website For The Kickstarter They Said The Full Version Will Be Released In About April Biggrin
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#40
They keep moving the date forward as the progress. I really hope it'll come out in April, but you never know.
I'd rather have them release it a bit late over them rushing it to release it before a given date.
All we need is somebody to lean on.
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